Counterfactual: A different result at Hastings?

[Berhthramm]

oh if Norman fail in Hastings... British did perhaps not adopt bow as a powerfull weapon...

[Audax Victor]

Interesting scenario here.

[the real lord duvet]

no ira?

Nope ireland would have been taken over by someone else. Maybe tne welsh. The english just invaded weak people who were normally busy fighting themselves.

However, no castles in england? No tower of london. Architechurally it would be interesting without continental influence?

[Brendan C]

no ira?

Nope ireland would have been taken over by someone else. Maybe tne welsh. The english just invaded weak people who were normally busy fighting themselves.

However, no castles in england? No tower of london. Architechurally it would be interesting without continental influence?

The Welsh?!

Too busy fighting each other at the time and for hundreds of years afterwards

Brendan C

[Jerky Meister]

nope, same argument the Irish were having but it involved sheep , and it was more of a love thing as well

[Brendan C]

nope, same argument the Irish were having but it involved sheep , and it was more of a love thing as well

No arguments about the Irish fighting each other, just did it with a little less chaos

Brendan C

[medicus matt]

If Harold had won at Hastings....

If the Normans were in a fit state to carry out a retreat under cover of darkness, they'd have made for the fort at Pevensey.
Where they'd have been starved out or burnt out. Harold's forces could only get bigger as the northern and western thegns arrived with their troops (stupid, rash impetuous man). Any attempt to supply or reinforce Pevensey could have been blocked by the now redeployed English navy.

Negotiations would have taken place to secure the release of Harold's brother, Wulfnoth, held hostage in Normandy. If William was still alive then I'd imagine that he'd have been the one to be exchanged but only after having taken oaths on (unconcealed...unlike sneaky Norman pig-dogs) relics not to do it again.

Presumably a large number of the Norman nobility would be dead and it's military capabilities destroyed so, as has been said, Normandy itself might have been rolled up by France.

In the face of a larger, more powerful France, Harold may have looked to develop alliances to counter the threat. His cousin, Sweyn II was on the throne in Denmark and, as Harold had just wiped out his main opponent, Hardrada, Sweyn may well have agreed to an alliance with Harold which would have seen them work together to reunite the now weakened Norway with Denmark. It's not unreasonable to think that Harold's daughter Gytha (the one that was eventually married off to a Kievan Rus prince) might have married into this now enhanced Danish monarchy, leading eventually to England falling under the kingship of a powerful Scandinavia monarch which would, no doubt, have already taken care of the Scots along the way.
Harold himself had already subdued the Welsh. I'm not sure how you measure the degree to which a nation has been bought to heel but I reckon that when they cut the head off their own king and send it to you and you then marry his queen....that's a pretty good sign.

Whatever happened, it seems likley that the English monarchy would once again be a Scandinavian rather than Frankish facing country.

So, less garlic and wine, more barely cooked meat, beer and vomiting.

Hurrah!

[Dan of Britannia]

So, less garlic and wine, more barely cooked meat, beer and vomiting.

Doctor Who was right then... you can't change time!

The wars that followed wouldn't have happened... but...

They'd have been replaced with other wars/diffrent enemies/different outcomes.

Humans love kicking the 5hit out of each other, dress it up how you like (religion, politics, strategy) but it always boils down to a land-grab!

Because of the geographical proximity of Britain to Europe, and the resources in Britain there would always be political pressure & aggression from a central european empire/kingdom - against home rule from Britain and this would probably never be answered/satisfied. (It still hasn't now)
(People want big island full of nice things, tough people take big island full of nice things by force, once there, they feel they belong there and don't want to share it!)

The main outcome is that Nigel would have to re-enact a different period and would not have given us such a laugh when he lost his temper with that Viking in Wroxeter!!!!

[2d]

The main outcome is that Nigel would have to re-enact a different period and would not have given us such a laugh when he lost his temper with that Viking in Wroxeter!!!!

Whilst the former is true (though there aren't many left he hasn't), he'd probably have still managed the latter eventually.



Ye'd aal taak propa.

[2d]

Distinctively Geordie and Northumbrian words are more than 80 % Angle in origin, compared to standard English, where the figure is less than 30 %. Modern English words by comaprison are predominantly of Latin origin because modern English derives from the dialects of southern England which were continuosly influenced by the Latin and Norman French favoured by the educated classes of Oxford, Cambridge and London.

[medicus matt]

What if...

Rather than being taken by surprise by Harold, Hardrada had recieved news of the march north and was ready to meet him at Stamford Bridge, or even had the chance to pick a better spot to give battle? Could he have won? Given that the battle wasn't exactly a walkover for Harold (understandable, given the fact that his army must have been knackered), could he have defeated Hardrada if he hadn't caught the invaders off guard?

Assuming that Hardrada and Tostig had won, killing Harold and Gyrth in the process...what next? William lands at Pevensey, hears the news and rushes for London to seize the treasury?
Would there have been a mustering in the South under Leofwine to resist him?
More importantly, what would Hardrada do? Consolidate his hold on the north from his base at York and gather an army. Given the choice between supporting Hardrada and William, you'd expect the huge majority to support the Norwegian (as long as he kept a firm rein on Tostig).

With both sides in control of a capitol and with neither able to control the gathering of resources of the other (both having free and easy sea access to their respective homelands), would a stalemate, or even a truce develop? Would Hardrada have attempted to bring Scotland under his control by allying himself with the Scandinavians and Norse-Gaels in the North and West of the country and defeating King Malcolm? If that happened, you might end up with the creation of a new northern kingdom that extended from an uneasy border lined with castles south of the Humber to the North of Scotland, something that Erik Bloodaxe had hoped to achieve.

IF the two invaders had met in battle, I think that Hardrada, with his extensive experience of modern warfare gained in Poland under Yaroslav and in Bulgaria and Sicily as part of the Imperial Byzantine army, would have been more than a match tactically (and in numbers) for William. I wouldn't like to call the outcome.